Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

The entire Ron Paul 2008 movement is and was strong here in my area . . . that was encouraging.

But seriously I've lost hope for the country as a whole. Far too many brain washed deceived sheeple here. Most can't be reached. The wake up process takes years. We don't have long before things get real nasty here. With out getting specific I have every reason to believe the majority of the population in the USA will be dead inside 15 years, probably less, from famine, war pestilence etc. Even the survivors who remain here in the USA after massive destruction sweeps the land will still be clueless. "Give us peace and security at any cost . . . "

Where do you go? Costa Rica, Caribbean, South America etc.

So how much net worth does one need to pull this off? $500k?

I know Bob Chapman lives in some tropical paradise.



Any Ideas?

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Hm, what third world rat hole should I flee to where I won't be known as, "The Gringo with money" is a good question. Where the local police will protect me and the government won't turn fascist or commie when the going gets tough? Where I, as a non-citizen am "allowed" to own firearms, my money and property?

Stand and fight.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=308061

Currently being discussed to a certain degree here.

but I agree with stimpy. There arent many options that are 'better'. They just seem better.

When/if our US economy collapses, make no mistake most of the world WILL go with it to a point. Youll see massive country wide lock downs, much harsher laws passed and enforced and a massive global wide power grab.

No place will be 100% un affected by it and being a foreigner could be very dangerous.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

I thought Chapman moved to Florida?

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

I agree.......... when the deal goes down alot of foregein nations are going to offer up the outsiders as the sacrificial lambs.

Bottom line If you are not living there NOW you may as well give it up.


Lock and load and wait for the fireworks......... you got a front row seat.

T

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Better to spend that money making yourself invisible here in the US. This will be a worldwide crash. As others have pointed out rich americans living in a poor country will stick out like a sore thumb.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Instead of moving down the ladder why don't you consider moving UP?

Contrary to popular belief there are countries with a higher standard of living than the US. Look it up...

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

You must live in Idaho. North of Boise. I was up there a few weeks ago and there are Ron Paul signs up everywhere.

If I was to move out of the country it would be probably be British Columbia. Way out in the middle of nowhere by some lake.
In South America, my choice would be Chile. Or Argentina tucked way up against the Andes at a high elevation. Far away from the sea that's for sure. Costa Rica will probably be under water some time soon.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Yes I live in North Idaho. I really have to agree that it's a little late in the game to move out of the country and my net worth isn't enough to make it worth while. I'm still in my working years and I'm self employed. So I need to be able to make a living at least until the . . . :fan:

I was thinking of St Kitts & Nevis. Maybe I will still visit before the it all unravels here.

Yes - I have front seat here .... all my real estate funds are tied up in PM's ... just slightly frustrating :confused_m:

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

I believe in the principals this country was largely founded upon. I was born in Virginia and am an American citizen. I'm not familiar with putting my tail between my legs and running for the borders. Patriots understand this.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Move to Montana you will have better luck in the few remaining good parts of the USA than in countries full of people who will blame the global economic problems on rich white guys

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

I'm going through this now. Think I'm gonna bounce. No one can call it. My Mantra is: If Jim Rogers is in Asia, I'm in Asia. He said it's the future, sold all his US holdings and now lives in Singapore. Wants daughters to learn Mandarin. This guy isn't a dummy.The choice is yours, but I don't see why you couldn't earn some dough where ever you land. Hell, you're a GIMMER.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

In 2000 I gave serious consideration to skipping the darth and shrub show. New Zealand looked nice, but you don't have reasonable gun rights, and it is a relatively expensive relocation. However, they welcome certain skills. I've been told going as a tourist, getting offered a job (job hunting discreetly), then applying to stay is easier than applying from here. You can stay quite a while as a tourist. It might be 6 months... the details are fuzzy now. Australia is pretty open to American visitors too. There is also a small business entry track in NZ. If you can employ some kiwis that gets you in.

For a much less expensive option, I expect that among the big native tribes in Bolivia that if you were decent to them they would be decent to you, but you would have quite a bit lower standard of living materially, at least 1 and maybe 2 non english languages to learn, though the cultural richness and human qualities, plus no rat race, are standard of living positives we rarely count in this culture, but I enjoy.

Middle expense - The island country of Dominica will sell you citizenship for a price that is not prohibitive for us and it is beautiful and english speaking. (or it did then.. 50k IIRC, then you would have dual citizenship and no residency hassles.)

A lot depends on what you like, what you can spend, your age and skills. There is a lot of information online.

We decided to stay, but ever since I saw 'Ship of Fools' as a child, and wondered why anyone would willingly return to Hitler's Germany, I have thought I would go if my country seemed to be descending into a cruel madness, but I didn't, and I now think that there is a good chance that we will navigate these hard times and restablish what is best about our culture.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

At least you live in one of the most beautiful parts of the USA.
North Idaho is gorgeous. We've got friends that live in Kooskia and we visit there quite often. Right now we live in rural SE AZ. Trying to get out of here, and on a property that actually has water & can grow a garden & have fruit trees.. It's just too dry here. There is no way to drill a well. The water company that we are hooked into is a pain in the butt. Laying out restrictions..
I've been looking into British Columbia and the property prices don't seem too bad. I'd like to get at least 100ac on our next property. The only bad part that I can see so far about Cananda is the no handgun part.. They sure got good hunting and fishing there and I know i'd love it.
One thing about moving.. It's EXPENSIVE.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

come to Australia! everyone's welcome. Its a good place..... really. be warned though our hamburger skills are no match for the craft you guys have developed.

Guns in NZ
 

AMforPM, it's not too bad here . . . you have to be a pistol club member (I am) to own a handgun but shotguns and rifles of all types are readily available. Larger calibre assault rifles are limited to 5 round mags. Firearms licenses are pretty easy to get. There are a lot of guns in NZ and hunting is very popular. The Dept. of Conservation actively encourages deer hunting on gov't land to help control the population.

http://www.guncity.co.nz/

On the immigration matter, as much as I hate to say it . . . I think Americans are becoming less and less popular the world over - Afghanistan, Iraq and now Wall St . . . it's difficult to underestimate how much damage the Bush Administration has done to the image of America in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Not my opinion though, I lived 15 years in your country and loved it - still do. Wonderful, generous and caring people . . . with a psychotic government!

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

I have struggled with this question, as well....I live in a nice town in the People's Socialist State of MA, pretty homes, (mostly) well-educated people, no crime to speak of, but I just don't fit in..... soccer mom's and men, who talk about nothing other than their boring, useless, non-productive jobs or professional sports...every conversation must begin with obligatory comment on the latest Red Sox or the Patriots game, neither of which I care about....I fail to see how the vagaries of a bunch of spoiled, multi-millionaire athletes has any impact on my life....I do not wish to spend my evenings and weekends sitting in front of the TV, stuck in the endless loop of professional sports.....screw that.....

.....I've become the turd in the punch bowl where I work, because I refuse to talk about the sports.....also, my Libertarian-Constitutionalist political views are extreme to most people around me, they cannot imagine a world in which the government is not tasked with running every aspect of our lives and fixing every problem....also, I work for a large corporate entity but I have outspoken views about the corporate greed and mismangement, which hasn't exactly helped my career....which is okay, because I have no desire to climb to the top of the rubbish heap of corporate america, I am not ready to sell my soul for that..

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

I've traveled the world quite a bit - SE Asia. Better to stick it out here = you know the rules/laws/customs. Can't imagine being a foreigner in a strange place wtshtf. Get out in the country right here in the US....that is your best bet by far. Must be able to have guns.....no guns = no freedom.

If I did have to go out of the USA.....it would be Singapore....very nice, english is fine with all the locals, safe, educated population, very strict laws. It is like "Asia 101" in Singapore. I have been there several times.....the customs Embarkation Card clearly says in big red letters "Trafficing of Illegal Drugs will be punished by DEATH". Also chewing gum is against the law in the city...they do not want it on the streets. I remember they "cained" a young boy that was caught spray painting on a building while I was there.

Nice country....but I do not know their laws....they seem like a take no shit kind of place...and it shows....it is the cleanest and nicest city I've ever experienced.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Just looking at this from an objective point of view, this argument is one that I will never understand. Did the original patriots, founding fathers, colonialists, etc. not get fed up with Mother England and flee across the Atlantic to a new world to create a better life for themselves and their families? Somehow doing the same thing today is unpatriotic?

I don't understand that reasoning.

Go where you can make the best life for yourself and any loved ones you have. If that is somewhere other than America, so be it - the world is a big place. But to say that leaving your home country to try to make a better life elsewhere is hardly a new concept - it's how America was founded. Sort of the opposite of what you're claiming in your post.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

What were the colonists fleeing? Hehe...

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

:553: Chile or Argentina if you head south...Patagonia territory for me,I like it wild,remote,and extreme.

Asia ? Bangkok,Thailand hands down.

The other side of the coin...Bangkok is an Asian ghetto hell on earth.
I could make a fortune in Bangkok hustling things I won't mention here.
A foreigners paradise if you have the ching...very easy to drop off the face of the earth forever in Thailand...nobody gives a $hit who you are or where you came from,including the authorities and I use the term authorities very loosely...everything and everybody is for sale in Bangkok.
No exceptions...my kind of town.

I could be happy in a remote jungle living like Tarzan or hyped up 24/7 in a corrupt big city running with fellow pirates and hard core criminal types ...either location has it's attractions and downside.

I would miss the money in the jungle though...I'd probably get bored and start smuggling exotic birds out of the country and hustling high demand illegal items to the natives on the side.

Once a pirate ... always a pirate.

:yes::bull-smile::yes:

The question is what defines your individual idea of safe ?

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Lots of great input - if I did flee the country I would want to go somewhere semi-auto battle rifles and handguns aren't taboo. Better yet full auto ok. I live in a class 3 "full auto
" state but frankly it's not worth the trouble. To surrender my weapons is to unnecessarily exposes your self and family to being a victim or slave. I was hoping on living out my natural life and never having to fire a shot in defense of self family, homestead or country. It's not looking good from my vantage. Can you believe I was once a full blown turn the other check pacifist for about 2 years. Prior to that I was a gun ho Marine ready to wax the bad guys. Now I'm back to "Don't Tread on Me".

I hope and pray the rest of my family can get on board and actually understand that establishing a homestead is of utter importance. Quite frankly this is the biggest hurdle I have to overcome.

We have several friends in Montana who have done just this. Not far from here either. All options are on the table.

I totally understand. If only 1 in a 100 able bodied males in the USA had my training, weapons and knowledge we could take back the country in a heart beat, but that will never happen. You can't offer any REAL solutions unless people are convinced of the problem. If exit polls for the 2008 Election show massive write in votes for Ron Paul - Chuck Baldwin and maybe even Bob Barr then there is a snowballs chance in hell in taking back the country by the ballot box and demanding a non -rigged election. Even if that did happen TPTB would stage another massive false flag attack to rally all the stupid sheep around the flag pole as a mass distraction. Far too many pseudo conservatives to offer any real solutions. Far too little understanding the systemic issues of the problem. It's a process and it takes years. My wake up happened quickly since I've never been one to submit to peer pressure nor do I care much about what other people think of me personally. TPTB have done a great job in muddying the waters and they understand human psychology and group think very well. Even after out cities are in rubble people will still be arguing about Democrats and Republicans and how the war on terror wasn't fought correctly. So my official stance is a fighting retreat. We will loose the country unless there is mass awakening very quickly.
I'm very familiar with what Jim Rodgers has done, however . . . not to be downer.... but I believe many US citizens who have solid technical knowledge in this country will be valued and exported as slaves to China. So those ones who actually survive the famine, war and occupation might find themselves on a One Way all expense paid trip to Asia.

Looks like the homestead search will be inside the area in red. Just need to find a way to get my Pollyanna family on board

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Alaska. Get free oil money - harvest your food from the wild - find gold nuggets the size of golf balls - enjoy the peace and quite... during the 9 months of winter.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Patriots?

Mr 25% still gets air time on TV as the economy circles the bowl.

The idiots who though invading Iraq was a good idea are still taken seriously.

I don't see any patriots anywhere! They're all sitting at home watching American Idol and sipping the koolaid.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

I'm dedicating this one out to all my brothers and sisters at GIM who think they can escape when TSHTF

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Moving abroad is a lot easier to fantasize about than to execute.

I've lived abroad going on seven years now, and there is a whole universe of things you will have to deal with, and you won't know how to deal with them until it's in your face. It would be MUCH easier to hang tough in the US, so long as you have a home and some stash.

Don't fantasize too much about the rest of the world- I've seen most of it. America, for all it's warts, is about the best you can expect.

Patriotism is horse pucky. Geimenschaft and geissellschaft. My country is my family and my ideals, and wherever these exist, I exist.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

I'm not leaving the US, buckle up kids its gonna be a wild ride.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

If you're heading to the Caribbean I would suggest maybe Belize. Its the only country south of the U.S. that speaks English. But I think you would be better of in the U.S. for a SHITF scenario. I am also headed overseas to Korea but not because of SHITF but because I am a little sick of the direction the U.S. is heading.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Belize is broke. All the resources were sold by the Govt to family and friends of politicians.

>Its the only country south of the U.S. that speaks English.

Say what? Jamaica? Cayman Islands? Antigua? Virgin Islands (you pick, US or British).

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

the way i look at it the shit done started , i am here for the long haul

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

As I've said in my thread head up here to Alaska you can still find gold in most of the streams and if the SHTF one can survive without to much trouble

Think of the salmon runs we'd have without comercial fishing smoked, dried and canned salmon will give you protien all winter long lots of rose hips and berries up here so you wouldnt starve

we have hot springs and sulfer deposits all over and a large population of free men who respect the situation were in

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

It doesnt matter where you are at WTSHTF, if the USA goes down, all goes down.most of these asian countries mentioned have large communist or islamic rebel groups in the country side,fended off by ...you guessed it a US equipped/financed military, no more uncle sam? commies take over, Singapore would be DONE within days its a city state,China would eat that up faster than a plate of Lo Mein.Thailand?,please Military takeover, foreigners sold as slaves,gold seized.all these countries depend on the US for their existence.Europe? that would last about a year, Russia would be all over that. the US or the British Commonwealth for all its faults would be my only choice.like language and culture(mostly).BTW i keep seeing this "Phillipine migration" threads posted, go ahead if the US collapses if the Chinese dont get you within two years the tropical diseases and the Molo will.without the USA your dollars are worthless, and your pms will dry up,and your ability to replace them will be very hard.the locals arent very good business men, they are corrupt thieves,all these countries were "possesions" of euro nations/usa for many years for a reason, their cultures are primitive.and are slow to develop.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Thats my plan, but I would probably be near Anchorage cause I need that fireweed for my bees.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

+2 for posting a warfish video. Want to play someday? I've got about 100 games under my belt so far.

This is free RISK (the board game) in a multiplayer online HTML version, btw. Good for practicing strategy.

As far as leaving, living in Southern California is starting to freak me out. If we don't get nuked I would seriously be surprised. I am aprehensive to leave my family, friends, girl, job, etc...but I can make it anywhere. And this is starting to become beyond ridiculous, the situation we are in.

I don't think living abroad is going to fix anything. Although it would be nice to miss the train when military law comes to town.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

This forum assumes that you will welcomed with rose petals and an instant citizenship. That is far from the reality of a semi pemanent migration to a foreign country. Most foreign counties have very strict immigration rules some more severe than the USA. Owning property in some countries is restricted to the natural citizens. Getting any employment may not be an option if you are knocking a local our of their employment opportunity. The customs and practices of government interaction are so far removed from the USA pratices, it is almost like being in a foreign land. Anyone thinking of bailing out of USA should spend a few weeks in the bugout country of choice to confirm that the worst in the USA is not a better alternative than the best in a foreign land especially if TEOTWAWKI impacts that particular foreign country.
My thoughts are that, after exploration of the alternatives of foreign living, that preparations to that end should have been started when your concerns reach beyond blathering off on these internet forums. Wait to see what happens and you will.
W S Cook

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Right on. The truth is, if you are thinking about heading this way, unless you have made arrangements for the right type of entry visa, you won't even make it past the ticket counter at LAX. Airlines get levied with serious fines from governments if they allow anyone with incorrect paperwork to land in their country . . . and the passenger is on the next flight back to where they came from.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

You can run but you can't hide from humanity.
This is a global crisis. Fear is the cause for consideration of flight. The world isn't coming to an end. It's only changing. Do continue to prepare yourself that is wise. Perhaps you should consider standing up for your country and what you believe in? The revolution is happening, you just can't see it with your eyes.
Have you joined your local Ron Paul http://www.meetup.com/ group?
Have you joined the www.campaignforliberty.com ?
Have you joined http://freedom-force.org/freedom.cfm?fuseaction=home ?

If your not an active participant in governing affairs your a passive beggar for the state's mercy.

Simply spreading the freedom message is the least you can do. Educate those around you. Lead by example. Wake up your American brothers and sisters.
Using the freedoms of the country without defending them is abuse. It's part of the problem. Got civic duty?

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

Why do you need anything more than a plane ticket? Pull off what? Sell your house, quit your job, leave, get a job, buy a house. If it's not as simple as that, then you should re-think what you're doing.

Re: Entertaining thoughts of leaving the USA B4 the SHTF
 

You assume those o us who are considering leaving haven't done our homework yet nor lived abroad. Have you ever lived abroad? For instance I already secured a job in Cambodia, just gotta get out of here before SHTF. Don't be a rube! Do your research, it ain't so bad living abroad. UNLESS YOU'RE AFRAID OF BEING A MINORITY OR BEING THE ONLY WHITE GUY IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY! THERE ARE A LOT OF WHITE FOREIGN COUNTRIES TOO, IF THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM. Don't be a rube.